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Israel and Palestine -- what's the story?


Middle East Peace  between Israelis and Palestinians (Ohio)
Interfaith Council for Peace in the Middle East

The following remarks on this page are MINE, not the Interfaith Council above.  I am Gary Goodman, American of Jewish ancestry.  I also happen to be a member of this group but this page is more radical, and is not intended to speak for nor represent their views of the Interfaith Council.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

ISRAEL'S SACRED TERRORISM  -- a book by Livia Rokach, daughter of Israel Rokach, about the diary of Prime Minister Moshe Sherrat.  Israel's deliberate creation of a "siege mentality", "removing moral brakes", and creating justification for "revenge", raising "retaliation" to the "highest moral value".

A Historical Perspective on the Hamas Victory.
This article by Ellis Shuman, originally published by Global Research in 2002, sheds light on the role of "suicide bombings" and the interests they served within the Sharon government.
Contrived behind closed doors in July 2001, the Dagan Plan was slated by its IDF and Mossad architects to be "launched immediately following the next high-casualty suicide bombing, would last about a month and is expected to result in the death of hundreds of Israelis and thousands of Palestinians."

Israeli Defense Force (IDF) Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Shaul Mofaz presented the government [in July 2001] with an updated plan for an all-out attack on the Palestinian Authority. The London-based Foreign Report reported that the plan calls for an invasion of Palestinian-controlled territory by some 30,000 Israeli soldiers, with the clearly defined mission of destroying the infrastructure of the Palestinian leadership and collecting weaponry currently possessed by the various Palestinian forces, and expelling or killing its military leadership. As reported in the Foreign Report and disclosed locally by Maariv, Israel's invasion plan — reportedly dubbed Operation Justified Vengeance .... Thus, for example, the use of F-16 fighter planes to bomb buildings in the center of Palestinian cities "has become routine."

stories by Israeli REFUSNIKS -- people refusing military service in the Occupied Territories, due to conscience.
Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out
A searing interview with Avichai Sharon and Noam Chayut, both veterans of the Israeli Defense Forces and members of Breaking the Silence. Sharon and Chayut served during the second intifada, an on-going bloodbath that has claimed the lives of over three thousand Palestinians and nine-hundred-fifty Israelis. After thorough introspection, these young men have chosen to speak out about their experiences as self-described "brutal occupiers of a disputed land." Producer: Sat Gwin

"Nobody Should Preach to Us Ethics, Nobody!"
In an article in the May 6 issue of the Israeli newspaper Haaretz entitled
"Someone Even Managed to Defecate into the Photocopier," 

And then there was this, as described by Hass: "There are two toilets on every floor, but the soldiers urinated and defecated everywhere else in the building, in several rooms of which they had lived for about a month. They did their business on the floors, in emptied flowerpots, even in drawers they had pulled out of desks. They defecated into plastic bags, and these were scattered in several places. Some of them had burst. Someone even managed to defecate into a photocopier. The soldiers urinated into empty mineral water bottles. These were scattered by the dozen in all the rooms of the building, in cardboard boxes, among the piles of rubbish and rubble, on desks, under desks, next to the furniture the soldiers had smashed, among the children's books that had been thrown down. Some of the bottles had opened and the yellow liquid had spilled and left its stain.

"It was especially difficult to enter two floors of the building because of the pungent stench of feces and urine. Soiled toilet paper was also scattered everywhere. In some of the rooms, not far from the heaps of feces and the toilet paper, remains of rotting food were scattered. In one corner, in the room in which someone had defecated into a drawer, full cartons of fruits and vegetables had been left behind. The toilets were left overflowing with bottles filled with urine, feces and toilet paper. Relative to other places, the soldiers did not leave behind them many sayings scrawled on the walls. Here and there were the candelabrum symbols of Israel, stars of David, praises for the Jerusalem Betar soccer team."

This is not a tale we are ever likely to see in the American press, so the vast majority of Americans who think with Menachem Begin that nobody can preach to Israel about ethics, that Israel's army is the only moral army in the world and always employs the doctrine of "purity of arms," will go on thinking that way.

But I cannot.

I am forced to ask some questions that that American majority will no doubt never hear: Can it, for instance, be called terrorism if an entire unit of the Israeli army forsakes purity of arms and spends a month crapping on floors, on piles of children's artwork, in desk drawers, on photocopiers?

Is this self-defense, or "rooting out the terrorist infrastructure"?

SHOCKING VIDEOS on the scene
Gary, The first three videos have been removed from UTube. 
 "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation. "
Thought you might want to know.
Probably some scumbag flagged them as 'bad' -- I wonder if people flag the neo-con anti-Arab videos, up there by the dozens, many submitted by a guy named "Intelsum" in Virginia, if you catch my drift.  Or Google/YouTube did it on their own. 
Here's some new sources.  You may be prompted to install Google's video player, it works good.

NEW LINKS or do search
Dispatches: The Killing Zone (A MUST SEE!) LIVE
If foreigners are dying like this in Gaza, what's happening to the people who live there?
If Americans Knew: Captured Prisoners
Israel imprisons Christian Nonviolent activists
and Muslim Nonviolent activists,
and young children, thousands of people, the norm is physical torture
being a member of Student Council is grounds for long imprisonment
negotiating with the university over student fees
description of torture process
Back from Hebron - Peace activist Henry Norr talks about his two months aiding Palestinians in the occupied city of Hebron.
RARE find  Rachel Corrie - Interview, her experience in Gaza
Rachel Corrie, the activist who was run over by an Israeli bulldozer (clearly on purpose).
Rachel Corrie - Related Footage -israel palestine
Footage from Rachel's murder by the Israeli Defense Forces. Actual cockpit transmission from the D-9 bulldozer driver to the watch tower, saying he "hit an object" and "I think the object got hit by the dobby (D-9) and he is in a severe condition." He is asked "Did you see him?" and responds "Yes I saw him, I think he is dead."
Israeli missile attacks nonviolent march in Rafah, Gaza

REAL interesting Settler riot in Tel Rumeida (occupied Palestine) part 3
Amazing Settler riot in Tel Rumeida (occupied Palestine) part 2
Kristallnacht except during broad daylight, not at night
Hebron PUNK settlers harass internationals and Israeli troops
Settler children in Tel Rumeida (occupied Palestine) part 4
little Israeli children throwing friggin boulders (well, big rocks) off the roof onto a Palestinian home,
while their Settler mother is watching
Hebron--City Without Mercy pt.1

Subject: who are the fanatics?

"We killed Jesus, we'll kill you too!!"

Swedish human rights worker viciously attacked by Jewish extremists in Hebron 

22 November 2006 

By Richard Kastelein

Palsolidarity.org , November 20, 2006



Publisher's Note: Just imagine if 100 Palestinians chanting anti-Christian slogans had smashed the face of a 19-year-old Swedish girl with a bottle in breaking her cheek bone! Don't you think it would make headlines in much the US and mainstream media?? 


Well, Israeli citizens did just that and not a single American mainstream news outlet has covered this incident.  

(For that matter, what if Hamas deliberately ran over a young American woman with a bulldozer, or a car?  When Israelis do that, it's not only perfectly OK, it's a JOKE!  Ha ha.  It's comedy to laugh about, the stupid woman!  R.I.P.  Rachel Corrie.  And those are white women.  Imagine what these radicals get away with when injuring olive-skinned women.)

A 19-year old Swedish human rights worker had her cheekbone broken by a Jewish extremist in Hebron on November 18th while walking through the Tel Rumeida checkpoint with a small group of human rights workers (HRWs) to accompany Palestinian schoolchildren to their homes.
Tove Johansson from Stockholm and the rest of the group were confronted by about 100 Jewish extremists in small groups. They started chanting in Hebrew:

"We killed Jesus, we'll kill you too!"
— a refrain the settlers had been repeating to internationals in Tel Rumeida all day .

Earlier the same day at least five Palestinians, including a 3-year-old child, were injured by the settler-supporting extremists, who rampaged through Tel Rumeida hurling stones and bottles at local residents. Palestinian schoolchildren on their way home were also attacked. The Israeli army, which was intensively deployed in the area, did not intervene to stop the attacks.

After about thirty seconds of waiting, a small group of very aggressive male Jewish extremists surrounded the international volunteers and began spitting at them, so much so that the internationals described it as "like rain." Then men from the back of the crowd began jumping up and spitting, while others from the back and side of the crowd kicked the volunteers.

Obviously, this "we killed Jesus" sneer is not the sentiment of ALL Jews, lets not get extremist in the opposite direction either and saying "we must finish what Hitler started", though some of the Israeli settlers also said when Baruch Goldstein massacred Arabs in prayer "it's a good start".  We all need to condemn and denounce all this extremism.


commentator writes:

I have to tell you the Settlers in Hebron are famous for being the most brutal people. They are responsible for shooting 70 Palestinians in the back as they prayed in a local mosque, murdering every single one. Israel dismissed the incident as one perpetrated by a "lunatic settler" and I believe the man is has not served one day in prison, only a mental facility.

These settlers often save the dirty diapers of their babies and throw them in the faces of Palestinians who walk by in the street.  They often enter the homes of Palestinians saying that it is their home not the Palestinians, and harrass them while Israeli soldiers watch. But worst of all, they are armed and will kill Palestinians as they please with no repercussions, it happens on a regular basis.

By the way, that disgusting phrase of "we killed Jesus and we will kill you too" is a famous line yelled at all western Christians who come to help Palestinians. Western people are not safe from the settler's violent ways, they have killed many of them--journalists, aid workers etc.

Keep in mind most of these settlers in the West Bank are coming from the United States, and they should know better than this behavior.

But, yet the Palestinians are the "uncivilized" in the middle east.

LECTURES, discussions
Manchester, England. 2nd November 2006.
Alan Hart speaks at a public meeting of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC).
He speaks about his two volume book "Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews".
Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews

I did not really know how terroristic these Jews were a few decades ago.
The Zionist Terror Network.
My parents were even stirred by Kahane. I don't think they thought of them as terrorists, more literally by the name "Jewish Defense League" and the idea of Jews proudly fighting back instead of victim role.  Black and white thinking, victory vs. defeat.
When President Bush Sr. delayed a $10 bn "loan" to Israel, they accused Bush of being anti-Semitic -- which is ridiculous, but Bush probably is at least to an extent, outside of his foreign policy preferences, basing that on his father Prescott.  Prescott was allegedly liberal, but he probably hated Jews as much as the next guy, or he would not have been able to mentally justify "running" Auschwitz for his coal investments.  But it's still idiotic to claim that Bush delayed a $10 loan because of his hatred for Jews.  It made Israelis look like idiots.

US Taxpayer's support of Israel against Palestine Part 1 of 3


 A document written by the Israeli peace front, Gush-Shalom in particular, laying out details and history of the longstanding conflict, with respect to both sides.

who is based in Nazareth, Israel. Cook has a superb grasp on the Palestinian issue. Near the end of this interview (one hour, ten minutes), Cook addresses the potential outcome of the neocon-Zionist plan to invade Iran. In addition, Cook puts Israel’s invasion of Lebanon into perspective and has a few interesting comments on Hezbollah’s Hassan Nasrallah.


israel Watch a typical Demolition of someone's home  (video)
amateur_footage_palestine.wmv  of Bulldozers demolishing Palestine

How to Live with Hunger
Dr. Ran HaCohen was born in the Netherlands in 1964 and grew up in Israel. He has a B.A. in Computer Science, an M.A. in Comparative Literature, and his PhD is in Jewish Studies. He is a university teacher in Israel. He also works as a literary translator (from German, English and Dutch), and as a literary critic for the Israeli daily Yedioth Achronoth. Mr. HaCohen's work has been published widely in Israel. "Letter from Israel" appears occasionally at Antiwar.com. This article, which first appeared on Antiwar.com on 26 February 2007, is republished with the author's permission
About Israeli Jews who are concerned with hunger in the world, many miles away.  Yet they are totally unconcerned or even arrogantly dismissive about extreme hunger -- food insecurity -- caused by Israel a few miles away.
It's interesting to observe, however, how Israelis nowadays cope with what used to be such a popular excuse. Having claimed the occupation ameliorated Palestinian life, Israelis now have to face hunger and starvation at their doorstep. How do they live with it?
Starvation Cannot Be Overlooked ...

Christian “AIPAC” Supports Palestinian Starvation
Dov Weissglas, the comatose Ariel Sharon’s onetime political advisor, compares this systematic program of gradual starvation to “an appointment with a dietician,”
All of this is disgustingly similar to the Nazi program of forced starvation of the Warsaw Ghetto Jews. In addition, the construction of Israel’s apartheid wall reminds one of the Nazi construction of a wall around the Warsaw Ghetto.
It appears 40 million Christian Zionists in America are in favor of a genocidal policy against a few million Palestinians and Hagee’s Christian Zionist “AIPAC” will “lobby” Congress to make sure every last Palestinian is either ethnically cleansed or systematically starved to death.

Who Killed Yitzak Rabin?
Was Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin was assassinated by his own security service?
(The Israeli JFK)
"Shir La'Shalom" ("Song to Peace") is the song Israeli prime minister
Yitzak Rabin was singing at a peace rally just before his assassination.
A bloody page with the lyrics was found in his pocket.
The Yitzhak Rabin murder "Kempler video" - Google Video

"Escalation" or "Retaliation": Israeli Attacks on Palestinians
The Politics of Language

The Other Israel:
Voices of Refusal and Dissent
by Kathleen Christison
former CIA political analyst

James Petras - Israel's War with Iran - the unabridged version
why the hell is BUSH standing in front of an ISRAELI FLAG!?!

At least I'm a Jew - Greta Berlin
what the Israeli settlers are really like
Last Saturday, after the demonstration in Bil'in, two of us boarded a bus bound for Hebron, a town of 130.000 Palestinians, 600 lunatic settlers, and 10,000 soldiers and police to 'guard' the settlers. Arriving at noon on Saturday, the day most settlers run rampant over everyone, we were told to immediately go to the top of the hill that separates settlers from Palestinians.

Within a half hour, several Israeli settler boys between 10-17 came strutting down the road toward the small Palestinian children playing in front of us. The children left immediately, and we turned on our cameras as they advanced toward us. The older boys egged the younger ones to pick up stones and throw them at us two women who were sitting on a stoop.   ... police said "
there's nothing we can do about it"

Well, these nasty kids began a full-on riot, throwing stones at the police and army, throwing pipes off the top of their settler apartment at homes beneath them, screaming obscenities, throwing garbage and flashing mirrors in the faces of the soldiers. Little settler girls started to come down and throw stones. It was so disgusting; I finally left and got treatment for my cuts and bruises. The rioting went on for hours, into the night, where they threw boulders onto the homes of the Palestinians.

Paletinians killed - Asma_16 Ahmed_13

I see comments online on Haaretz (Israeli paper) or al-Jazeera or electronic intifada where Zionist jackasses bluntly say "You lost.  Get over it."  However, that's what the Zionist leaders of Israel say too, with only a hair less bluntness.
I just realized, actually and historically and literally, in spoken and written word, "You lost.  Get over it." IS a central core theme of Zionism, as much as Aliyah or any other theme of redemption.
Jews have been disenfranchised out of a lot of ancestral and historical homes in the past.  They've lost property and accepted that --- when they had no better choice.  I have read a bit about Jews fleeing from place to place in the Middle Ages in Europe.  From a self-centered perspective of only adding up Jewish needs, I can grasp why this question (below) persists.
I was born in Detroit, but have no personal attachment there.  On the other hand, the Dome of the Rock, is not in Detroit, nor the Stations of the Cross.
This was a post online somewhere, maybe Haaretz, but I cant remember where.  I think I was going to respond to it.  This is probably an example of intentional ignorance:
Sam -Why Israel exists
The whole purpose of Israel was to allow jews a place to go when persecution became intolerable elsewhere. As it did in Spain,Ukraine,Russia,Germany,Poland,Iran,Syria,Eygp, France,Venezuela and numerous other places..
OK, that sounds like a good enough cause.  He did not mention Argentina, I understand that many of the Leftist 'disappeared' were Jewish Leftists and their families and friends.
The Jews have been historically the most persecuted people in the world. Millions upon millions have been killed simply because they are jewish. This occuring not just in the infamous holocaust. If all the world jews were to do aliya to Israel there still would only be 14 million of them. There are nearly a billion muslims in the world. Most are in the middle east. Can`t they live in peace with the jews?
Obviously, this story of past and of hypothetical future persecution of Jews stands in total ignorance of current real persecution of Palestinians, but it's instructive insofar as the self-centered ignorance of the debater.  I mean at very least, he could say 'please let us alone and let us shelter ourselves here' but that would contradict the basis of Zionism based on eternal land rights and domination, and expansion into more territory.  There are written plans to seize Lebanon some day as well.  Maybe the Lebanese can just 'get over it' too.
In 1948 the Arab nations attacked Israel; not the other way around. If the Arabs had accepted Israel, the last nearly 60 years of wars and suffering would never had happened.
More ignorance of accepted and proven facts on what transpired, covered by Finkelstein, much over-simplification, and a need for utter blamelessness.  How irritating to have to reason with people like this who make the victims into the perpetrators in order to have their own "innocence".  When you grab a weapon and drive a robber out of your house, is it said that you attacked him without cause?  Some criminals DO try to use that argument in their defense -- "he shouldn't have fought back".
In a previous post, I mentioned Alan Hart's vision of intelligent Palestinians and intelligent Jews working together in a society in harmony to create wealth and new inventions.  I forgot to mention, another story of Rwanda (told either by Hart or by a Libertarian Capitalist trying to make a point about the peace-affirming values of commerce and free trade), in which a Tutsi woman whose entire family was killed by Hutus now employs Hutus on her very productive farm, including some who were once killers.  This works out due to the joint practical needs of all parties, and wealth is being restored.

A Two-State solution seems out of the question unless Israel forcibly demolishes all or most settlements, and the political will of the Isr leadership to use police force to relocate or repress it's own population is weak.  Somewhere I heard of an Isr leader specifically talking about efforts to avoid that hot potato by simply delaying it and passing it on.
A One State solution seems impossible for certain reasons.  Some Palestinians who can NEVER forgive Isr and who blame Jews entirely as a people are counterbalanced by Israeli Jews who can NEVER forgive or trust Palestinians.  From what I've seen, it seems the Israelis are MORE virulent haters than Arabs.  Videos below.
Alan Hart (above) suggested that Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs are both the "cream of the crop" intellectually of their respective cultures and therefore the cooperation between the two should lead to explosive inventiveness and economic progress.
However, at very least, the angry and violent and racist Israeli settlers, as well as angry and violent and racist Palestinians, would have to be either have their own exclusionary residences --- with a strong commitment on economic justice to separate but truly equal --- more controls than the antebellum South which re-instituted virtual slavery and virulent racism of Jim Crow laws and KKK brigades --- or would need massive police oversight to maintain civil order amongst Palestinians living near Jews.  See shocking Settlers videos above.

Again, peace and justice was somewhat instituted in The South by The North in the United States for a few years, during which time Blacks gained property and were even elected positions in politics, serving as mayors, sheriffs, and even in Congress.  Then protection was withdrawn, with the expected results.  In some cases, Blacks moved en masse to their own towns, which the KKK came and terrorized and burnt to the ground.
The government has stirred up and maintained racism for it's own political motives, now it has a problem very difficult to undo, changing the minds of the entire population.