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by Ian Williams Goddard
The question was recently put to me in the course of an internet dialog regarding conspiracy theories, "Ian, can you give examples of conspiracy theories which have been proven true?" Toward the satisfaction of this question I offered the following:
IAN: If we define "proven true" as "that which is accepted by the GovtMedia," and thus by the majority of people, I'd be hard-pressed to point to a conspiracy "proven true."
If we define "proven true" as "consistent with facts," then there are many conspiracy theories proven true, such as:
CONSPIRACY THEORY 1: Attica prison guards killed all the prisoners and hostages during the 1971 Attica prison riot.
FACT: The GovtMedia reported that the prisoners cut the hostage's throats. Headlines even read "I Saw The Slit Thoughts." Recently, 25 years later, the man who did the autopsies, Dr. Baden, said on the HBO series "Autopsy" that the guards shot everyone and the stories to the contrary were a Big Lie. Yet the media line is still the govt line. It becomes clear after a little research that the media serves the State.
CONSPIRACY THEORY 2: Many people who died during the final assault on the Branch Davidian community in Waco, TX, were killed by the FBI, not at the hands of Davidian members as reported. The GovtMedia con- spires to cover-up and censor facts proving this.
FACT 1: In November of '93, pathologist Dr. Rodney Crowe, who did autopsies on surviving bodies from the Waco fire, said on the Maury Povich Show that the children who died of blunt-force trauma were in fact * crushed to death after a tank collapsed a concrete wall on them. * The children and their mothers -- over 40 women and children -- were this concrete room (which the govt called "the bunker") trying to survive, not to kill themselves as the GovtMedia would have us think. They were all killed. The GovtMedia told us that these children were "beaten to death by their parent in the final moments." Dr. Crowe was irate about this gross example of GovtMedia disinformation.
FACT 2: Medical examiner Nizaam Peerwani testified at the Davidian's trial that three women and six children in that concrete room died of suffocation *before* the fire. He suspects it was due to CS gas (Trial transcripts: 5979, 6029). Did you hear about that on the news? Nope. Ms. Reno said she does not think CS can be lethal to children, yet the label on all CS canisters says that CS used indoors can be fatal to children. Before the fire, a tank shot several * exploding * CS rounds point- blank into that small room filled with women and children. Mt. Carmel was heavily bugged, so they had to know where the women and children were. Notice how these *facts* are censored from all news coverage. That is itself proof of conspiracy to cover-up mass murder. More:
FACT 3: According to former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, infra-red (FLIR) video taken from the FBI's own helicopter proves that the FBI fired heavily with full-auto-machine-guns into the Mt. Carmel center just as the fire started, which was when people would most likely try to exit. The FLIR video also proves that Davidians did NOT fire out at the tanks on that day as reported by the GovtMedia. That bit of disinformation was a key pretext to speeding up the demolition of the building. Ramsey Clark will be using this FLIR video in upcoming wrongful death suits against the so-called "Department of Justice." Ramsey Clark spoke about this FLIR video
footage at the April 19, 1996 memorial gathering in Waco, TX.FACT 4: Toxicologist Dr. William Marcus, testified at the Congressional Hearings on Waco that the CS molecule contains a "cyanide radical" that could have been transdermally absorbed by the children due to their thin skin. CS also converts to hydrogen cyanide when burned. In fact, surviving bodies where found to contain very high levels of cyanide. Dr. Marcus also observed that CS is a heavy particle that is suspended in the air like a gas only for a brief period when carried by the flammable and toxic agent methyl chloride, thus CS particles fall quickly to the ground. The FBI calculated that if spread evenly over the known sq. feet of indoor space, the tons of CS pumped in should not have exceeded safe levels. But this is a deception because, as CS quickly falls, very high concentrations would be found toward the floor along with the children and fallen adults, in fact, 10 to 100 times higher than if uniformly distributed.
I believe that these facts prove the conspiracy theory that the Government killed many or most of the people who died on April 19, 1993 at Waco, TX. The facts also strongly suggest, to say the least, that the Government killed with intent. They also prove that the media censors all those facts that indicate Government culpability in favor of false claims that demonize the victims of Government abuse, thereby rendering the media a willing accessory to mass murder and to the obstruction of justice. For more on Waco.
CONSPIRACY THEORY 3: The FBI facilitated and allowed the World Trade Center bombing to happen when they could have stopped it.
FACTS: As reported by The New York Times (10/28/93) and CNN, Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used by the FBI to infiltrate the terrorists later charged in the Trade Center bombing. The original plan told to Mr. Salem was that his job was to see to it that fake explosives were used, then the bombers would be busted for planting what they thought was a real bomb with no possibility of anybody getting hurt. A good plan. Mr. Salem secretly tape-recorded hundreds of hours of his telephonic communications with authorities without their knowledge.
The recordings reveal that the FBI changed the original plan and told Mr. Salem NOT to use the fake explosives but to use REAL explosives. The FBI agent who told him to use real explosives was adamant about this. I saw and heard this on CNN in '93 and could not believe my eyes and ears, I thought, "We'll never hear the end of this." Boy was I wrong, it totally disappeared. Alas, there is an excerpt of some of this that was printed in The New York Times (10/28/93).
While these recordings were played in preliminary court hearings, they were barred from the actual trial because Mr. Salem made them without the permission of the FBI agents. The Government can bug you without your permission, but the opposite is not also true -- that's tyranny. The tapes exist, and they prove that the FBI de facto orchestrated the bombing of the World Trade Center, an act that would result in massive new police powers for the FBI. However, because the tapes were barred from court, the media simply pretends they don't exist and the truth is forever nullified from the official GovtMedia story, exiled to the dark allies of seedy conspiracy theory.
They say that tens of thousands would have died if the truck-bomb had been able to park in the spot the bombers had reserved, right next to a key column, but when they got there a car had taken their spot. I'd like to think someone knew about this and parked the car there to save the lives of thousands of people.
CONSPIRACY THEORY 4: The FBI fabricated evidence in the Oklahoma bombing investigation.
FACT: Associated Press 04/10/96 reports that (emphasis added):
Prosecutors agreed to turn over letters from FBI agent Frederic Whitehurts, who tested Mr. McVeigh's cloths for traces of explosives. Mr. Whitehurst has claimed that investigators FAKED evidence in the bombing case. ^^^^^CONSPIRACY THEORY 5: The Government was both involved in the April 19, 1993 Oklahoma City bombing and had foreknowledge of it, and both the Government and the media are covering this up.
FACT 1: Former Grand Juror Hoppy Heidelberg, in charge of evidence in the Oklahoma City bombing case, told the press that, "No one who saw McVeigh with other suspects [ such as John Doe #2 ], was ever allowed to testify before the Federal Grand Jury." Mr. Heidelberg was eventually thrown off the jury after he refused to stop asking questions about John Doe 2. His review of the best available evidence lead him to conclude, as was reported in both the USA Today (10/19/95) and the AP:
"I think they [the Government] know who John Doe 2 is, and they are protecting him. This is because John Doe 2 was either a government agent or a government informant. Either way they [the Government] had... prior knowledge to the bombing and that's what they can't afford to come out."After this single report in the media, Mr. Heidelburg's story is for all intents and purposes gone with the wind -- no long part of the picture.
FACT 2: The Portland newspaper the OREGONIAN (4/20/95), states that Judge Wayne Alley, whose office sits across from the Murrah building, was warned several days prior to the blast by "security specialists" to take "special precautions." This story never resurfaced.
FACT 3: The USA Today (4/20/95) reported that Harvy Weathers, of the Oklahoma City Fire Department, said that the fire dept. had received a call from the FBI prior to the bombing stating that there would be "some people entering the city over the weekend." Weathers did not explain what this meant, but obviously an army of FBI were to enter the city after the bombing later the next week. "Over the weekend" would have been a few days before the bombing. Then consider that:
FACT 4: Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key says that he knows of two witnesses who overheard ATF employees state that they were warned not to come to work that day, indeed, even as the ATF was the supposed target of the bombing, no ATF agents were killed, and few if any showed up for work that day. Representative Key also points out that bomb squad employees were seen in front of the building at 7:15 am, about two hours prior to the blast. Rep. Key has conducted his own investigation and was so shocked with the evidence he uncovered, he compiled it into a video presentation.
FACT 5: As reported by the Associated Press, the McVeigh defense team is in possession of a tape of a call made by the FBI to Oklahoma City officials warning of a possible terrorist event in the next few days made several days prior to the blast.
FACT 6: As reported widely on CNN and TV stations across the nation, up to four primed bombs were found and defused inside what remained of the Murrah Center Federal Building on April 19, 1995. I have much of this on tape. How could bombs have been placed inside a large Government building without inside Government connections ?
FACT 7: According to CNN, the bombs were found by bomb sniffing dogs. The ATF later said they were dummy bombs used for bomb training in the busy downtown office building. If true, then, containing no explosives, explosives detecting dogs would not had tracked them down as they did, nor would munitions technicians have spent so much time defusing them as they did, for, training bombs are always clearly labeled as such. The ATF's "dummy bomb" story, is at odds with the facts.
FACT 8: KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City reported on the 19th that two or more of the bombs found inside were "far larger in magnitude than the fist that went off INSIDE the building" (seismic recorders at two locations both recorded TWO blasts). A terrorist expert, Dr. Randall Heather, on KFOR-TV said, "We have both of the bombs that were defused at the site and they are being taken apart." The news coverage went on to say that another bomb was found strapped to a column next to the day-care center. Up to four unexploded bombs where found inside by the end of the day.
FACT 9: Brigadier General Partin (USAF, Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory, ret.), one of the top munitions experts in the world, says that blast damage patterns are NOT consistent with an ANFO truck bomb. He says that demolition charges had to be placed on the columns, and sure enough, one was found attached to a column that failed to go off. Important excerpts of Partin's report are avaible on the web (a very large page, select no graphics for speed).
FACT 10: The publication Veritas (5/9/95) reports that bomb technicians inside the building on the 19th, who were finding the unexploded bombs inside the building, were heard to say over police radio:
First voice: Boy your not going to believe this! Second voice: Believe what? First voice: I can't believe it... this is a military bomb!Michele Marie Moore, an investigator in Oklahoma City, has writen a comprehensive book based on extensive eyewitness accounts and recordings of hundreds of hours of local TV, Police, Fire and EMT broadcasts that reveal the shocking untold story about what really happened in OK City. The result of the bombing was that the police forces of the federal Government were given massive new powers granted by the "Anti-terrorist Bill" signed at a large White House ceremony exactly one year after the OK bombing.
You can also purchase the book "OKBOMB, Conspiracy and Cover-up," from A-albionic Research, P.O. Box 20273, Ferndale, MI 48220, for $18.90.
Recommended Waco fact reference: "The Davidian Massacre." $9.00 book rate, or $11.00 first class. Mail to: Carol Moore, Box 65518, Washington, D.C. 20035. Disclaimer: I'm not making any money off the sale of these books.
The above listing of facts is but a drop in the bucket of all facts that support and/or prove conspiracy on the part of the Government in only the few cases cited above. Needless to say there are many other cases with significant evidence to suggest Government conspiracy, such as the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy and civil rights leader Martin Luther King, the Jonestown atrocity, the running of drugs,... All largely or entirely censored by the major media, except as the stories are breaking, prior to an organized effort to suppress.
A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the facts, who refuse to believe that their Government and their media will routinely lie to them and fabricate a reality contrary to verifiable facts, is a society that chooses and deserves the Police State Dictatorship it's going to get.
© 1996 Ian Goddard - All Rights Reserved - Reprinted With Permission
FYI..
Does anyone know where I can get about 100 copies of "Catcher in the Rye" with the Queen of Diamonds dust jacket? That's the one published by Ipcress Press with the introduction by Robert Frost: "The snow if lovely, dark and deep, and I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep."
Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy! Ever since the globalist run media has gotten on this "conspiracy" business, it has become fashionable for twits everywhere to label every little flap, a "conspiracy"
When I use the term "conspiracy" it is a direct reference (only) to THE grand conspiracy to subvert American soverignty, remove all freedoms, and create a (totalitarian) slave state.
There's lots of collusion and skulduggery going on, on behalf of the BIG conspiracy, but there's only one BIG copnspiracy. And I don't think most people realize how BIG it is.
"It's readily apparent that "conspiracy theory" is a label that is applied to facts that are inconvenient to the government. It's almost a tell-tale sign that the story is indeed true, and is the subject of an active coverup.."
Do not forget the biggest attempt in "pop culture"to discredit any thoery that does not fit. The movie Conspiracy Theory was an an attempt through the medium of Hollywood. After this movie, the mere mention of an alternative theory was laughed off as a "conspiracy theory." Not by all to be sure...but this label with its connotation has endured with the help of major talking heads who used and continue to use the term with a slight smirk on their face.
Therefore, using the term alternative theory might be better in the sense that it sets up situation where it is suggested that the government has a theory, and that one's alternative theory is on equal parr. Otherwise, it will always be pointed out, oh, that's the "conspiracy theory" vs. the "government investigation."
BIG BUMP
I just love conspiracy theories...don't you?
Thanks!
The best way to stop a sacandal is to call it "conspiracy"!
Thats why we love em so much.
One should study the history of conspiracy, not just bandy theories around.
However, remember the scientific definition of a theory is a hipothesis that takes into account and satisfactorily explains all the known facts.
--very nice overview article. It readily and easily points out some of the more glaring examples. One currently running is the twa 800 shootdown. Another one that might eventually come out is the olympics blast. I can name several more, but will be content to wait for someone else to bring them up. A favorite subject of mine. I always am amused by those who use 'black helicopters" in derision whenever replying to something, when they actually exist! That's a funny one to me.
Media psyops manipulation actually follows just normal debate tactics if you look at it closely. Only the scale and complexity are different.
When I use the term "conspiracy" it is a direct reference (only) to THE grand conspiracy to subvert American soverignty, remove all freedoms, and create a (totalitarian) slave state.
You mean this?
THE UNITED STATES PROGRAM
FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT
IN A PEACEFUL WORLD
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DEPARTMENT OF STATE PUBLICATION 7277
Disarmament Series 5
Released September 1961
Office of Public Services
BUREAU OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS
For sale by the Superintendent ot Documents, U.S. Government
Printing Office, Washington 25, D.C. - Price 15 cents
The revolutionary development of modern weapons within a world divided by serious ideological differences has produced a crisis in human history. In order to overcome the danger of nuclear war now confronting mankind, the United States has introduced, at the Sixteenth General Assembly of the United Nations, a Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World.
This new program provides for the progressive reduction of the war-making capabilities of nations and the simultaneous strengthening of international institutions to settle disputes and maintain the peace. It sets forth a series of comprehensive measures which can and should be taken in order to bring about a world in which there will be freedom from war and security for all states. It is based on three principles deemed essential to the achievement of practical progress in the disarmament field:
There follows a summary of the principal provisions of the United States Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World. The full text of the program is contained in an appendix to this pamphlet.
DISARMAMENT GOAL AND OBJECTIVES
The overall goal of the United States is a free, secure, and peaceful world of independent states adhering to common standards of justice and international conduct and subjecting the use of force to the rule of law; a world which has achieved general and complete disarmament under effective international control; and a world in which adjustment to change takes place in accordance with the principles of the United Nations.
In order to make possible the achievement of that goal, the program sets forth the following specific objectives toward which nations should direct their efforts:
TASKS OF NEGOTIATING STATES
The negotiating states are called upon to develop the program into a detailed plan for general and complete disarmament and to continue their efforts without interruption until the whole program has been achieved. To this end, they are to seek the widest possible area of agreement at the earliest possible date. At the same time, and without prejudice to progress on the disarmament program, they are to seek agreement on those immediate measures that would contribute to the common security of nations and that could facilitate and form part of the total program.
The program sets forth a series of general principles to guide the negotiating states in their work. These make clear that:
The program provides for progressive disarmament steps to take place in three stages and for the simultaneous strengthening of international institutions.
The first stage contains measures which would significantly reduce the capabilities of nations to wage aggressive war. Implementation of this stage would mean that:
The second stage contains a series of measures which would bring within sight a world in which there would be freedom from war. Implementation of all measures in the second stage would mean:
During the third stage of the program, the states of the world, building on the experience and confidence gained in successfully implementing the measures of the first two stages, would take final steps toward the goal of a world in which:
DECLARATION ON DISARMAMENT
THE UNITED STATES PROGRAM
FOR GENERAL AND COMPLETE DISARMAMENT
IN A PEACEFUL WORLD
The Nations of the world,
Conscious of the crisis in human history produced by the revolutionary development of modern weapons within a world divided by serious ideological differences;
Determined to save present and succeeding generations from the scourge of war and the dangers and burdens of the arms race and to create conditions in which all peoples can strive freely and peacefully to fulfill their basic aspirations;
Declare their goal to be: A free, secure, and peaceful world of independent states adhering to common standards of justice and international conduct and subjecting the use of force to the rule of law; a world where adjustment to change takes place in accordance with the principles of the United Nations; a world where there shall be a permanent state of general and complete disarmament under effective international control and where the resources of nations shall be devoted to man's material, cultural, and spiritual advance;
Call on the negotiating states:
Affirm that disarmament negotiations should be guided by the following principles:
Agree upon the following outline program for achieving general and complete disarmament:
A. To Establish an International Disarmament Organization:
B. To Reduce Armed Forces and Armaments:
C. To Contain and Reduce the Nuclear Threat:
D. To Reduce Strategic Nuclear Weapons Delivery Vehicles:
E. To Promote the Peaceful Use of Outer Space:
F. To Reduce the Risks of War by Accident, Miscalculation, and Surprise Attack:
G. To Keep the Peace:
A. International Disarmament Organization:
B. To Further Reduce Armed Forces and Armaments:
C. To Further Reduce the Nuclear Threat:
D. To Further Reduce Strategic Nuclear Weapons Delivery Vehicles:
E. To Keep the Peace:
During Stage II, states shall develop further the peace-keeping processes of the United Nations, to the end that the United Nations can effectively in Stage III deter or suppress any threat or use of force in violation of the purposes and principles of the United Nations:
By the time Stage II has been completed, the confidence produced through a verified disarmament program, the acceptance of rules of peaceful international behavior, and the development of strengthened international peace-keeping processes within the framework of the U.N. should have reached a point where the states of the world can move forward to Stage III. In Stage III progressive controlled disarmament and continuously developing principles and procedures of international law would proceed to a point where no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. Peace Force and all international disputes would be settled according to the agreed principles of international conduct.
The progressive steps to be taken during the final phase of the disarmament program would be directed toward the attainment of a world in which:
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE: 11161 O-609147 =================================================================
That book by Michele Marie Moore seems interesting. That webpage is down though. Has anybody else read her book? What do you think? I like the fact it uses EMT comments in it as well, something I have not seen before.
I have a BIG problem with this statement from Goddard:
If we define "proven true" as "that which is accepted by the GovtMedia," and thus by the majority of people, I'd be hard-pressed to point to a conspiracy "proven true."
I have to give him a little room on the "majority of people" as the majority of people don't know much about anything, but there are many conspiracies involving U.S. government agents which have been exposed and ultimately admitted by the government and the media.
Off the top of my head:
Following World War II, Allied troops were ordered to force back to Soviet controlled territory 2 million former residents of those areas who had escaped westward. There are documented cases of parents killing their own children then committing suicide to avoid the fate they expected at Stalin's hands. This was effectively covered up until the early 80s, though thousands of Americans participated in these forced repatriations.
The Tuskeegee "Study" -- Negro males [399 of them IIRC] afflicted with syphilis were denied treatment so the progress of the disease could be monitored. In the early days of the study there was little effective treatment available, but it continued until 1973 and every subject of the study was determined to have died of the disease.
COINTELPRO -- An FBI "counterintelligence" program operated to eliminate radical political opposition to the established social and political order. Primarily directed at black activists and leaders (from ML King to the Black Panthers) it is today widely acknowledged that the FBI attempted to encourage the suicides of subjects, the assassination of subjects by their own allies, and undertook numerous actions to undermine or destroy legitimate political dissent.
MK-Ultra -- research started during World War II to find effective mind-control techniques using hypnosis and/or various pharmaceuticals. During the course of the program both U.S. militry personnel and civilians were subjected to experimentation with LSD and other exotic drugs, often without their informed consent.
Radiation tests -- In the 50's U.S. Army soldiers were marched within miles of aboveground Atomic bomb tests. They were told there would be no adverse effects but -- guess what?
Agent Orange -- despite years of denials by the U.S. government, there has now been identified a conclusive linke between Agent Orange (dioxin) exposure and non-Hodgkins lymphoma as well as spina bifida in the offspring of exposure victims. In the mid-80s it was established that employees in the U.S. Center for Disease Control located in Atlanta Georgia had shredded a research finding linking Agent Orange and non-Hodgkins lymphoma.
The Tonkin Gulf "incident" which never happened.
Bombing of Cambodia -- In the latter days of the Vietnam War the bombing of Cambodia was not only secret, it was contrary to U.S. law. While it was occurring there were a vast number of reports from the region about it, but of course the USG denied them all. One of the Articles of Impeachment approved in committee in the House against President Nixon was for this unlawful bombing. (Conspiracies don't have to be ill-advised, they just have to be unlawful.)
Iran-Contra -- we all know about that one, but there are many disturbing details which have not been acknowledged by gov or media. While many argue that the Boland Amendment which made U.S. support of the Contras unlawful was itself un-Constitutional, circumventing it rather than challenging its Constitutionality was certainly a conspiracy.
U.S. government orchestration and support of the overthrow of Ngo Dihn Diem, President of a sovereign nation and ally, South Vietnam. In the face of accusations that the USG was behind the overthrow, official denials were repeated for over a decade, but the truth is now known, and acknowledged.
Mustard gas experiments on as many as 60,000 U.S. military personnel, denied by the U.S. government, of course, for decades.
Living Vietnam War POWs abandoned -- At the very time President Nixon was announcing to a national TV audience in April of 1973 that "all the POWs are home" memos and message traffic indicates firm knowledge that some living American prisoners had been left behind. Denial of their existence persisted for years. In 1991 Senate testimony 3 former Secretaries of Defense (under pressure during questioning) admitted that they believed some had been abandoned in captivity in 1973.
Therefore, using the term alternative theory might be better in the sense that it sets up situation where it is suggested that the government has a theory, and that one's alternative theory is on equal parr. Otherwise, it will always be pointed out, oh, that's the "conspiracy theory" vs. the "government investigation."
Even if we were to rename these controversial theories "alternative" theories, the news media and the shills will ALWAYS refer to them as "conspiracy theories". That and you may see a few references to Reynolds wrap here and there. It is by no means accidental, but is simply one trick of many that is used to discredit information and/or the individuals who have presented that information...
You might find the following links informative:
PROPAGANDA TECHNIQUES
Psychological Operations and the Verbiage of War
please see #13
--very nice overview article. It readily and easily points out some of the more glaring examples. One currently running is the twa 800 shootdown. For anybody who wants to check that out, you can get to that thread by clicking the link below...
We saw TWA Flight 800 Shot Down by Missiles - Part 2
I always am amused by those who use 'black helicopters" in derision whenever replying to something, when they actually exist! That's a funny one to me.
Odd that we haven't seen those or the images of Reynolds wrap for awhile now.. :)
Media psyops manipulation actually follows just normal debate tactics if you look at it closely. Only the scale and complexity are different.
CNN is famous for that...
Salinger 'totally sure' TWA 800 missile theory is true
FBI interviews Salinger on TWA, discredits 'friendly fire' document
NTSB: "No physical evidence" missile brought down TWA 800
The CNN/Government (Selective) Hearing
TWA missile theory co-author apologizes
CNN's IAN GODDARD TWA 800 "PLOT"
How about installing Pinochet in Chile (or was that ever proven)?
If Oswald was innocent, why did he shoot Tippit?
Yes, I mean that, and all that has come before it for the last 100 years or more!
That book by Michele Marie Moore seems interesting. That webpage is down though. Has anybody else read her book? What do you think? I like the fact it uses EMT comments in it as well, something I have not seen before.
Amazon.com has it, but it's a special order item.
You can check it out by clicking here Oklahoma City : Day One by Michele Marie Moore
Simple. Oswald didn't shoot Tippit. Or Kennedy either, for that matter.
Living Vietnam War POWs abandoned ....
I was in the Navy in 1975, and they said that if we were to be taken prisoner of war, we would never be abandoned.
Of course, that was before IIRC a KGB General came over to the US and testified that dozens of servicemen, mostly pilots, were taken to a Czech mental hospital and fully debriefed and then offed.
"Atrocities in Vietnam"
"Sejna testified that the same things went on in North Vietnam and Laos during the Vietnam War, noting, "The only difference is the operation in Vietnam was better planned and more American POWs were used, both in Vietnam and Laos and in the Soviet Union." On several occasions, testified General Sejna, "my office was responsible for organizing the shipments of POWs and their housing in Prague before they were shipped to the Soviet Union. I personally was present when American POWs were unloaded from planes, put on buses whose windows had been painted black, and then driven to Prague, where they were placed in various military intelligence barracks and other secure buildings until they were shipped to the Soviet Union. Between 1961 and 1968, when I left Czechoslovakia, I would estimate at least 200 American POWs were shipped to the Soviet Union through Czechoslovakia." There may have been more, Sejna conjectured, shipped through North Korea and East Germany, though of these he had no firsthand knowledge. There were intelligence reports, however, of Americans being handed over to the Chinese during the Korean War, and Czech intelligence learned that the North Vietnamese provided U.S. prisoners to Red China.
Who knew of this? In Czechoslovakia, the general estimated, fewer than 15 people were aware of the transfer of Americans to the Soviet Union. As the written instructions said, at the beginning of the Soviet operation in 1951, the operation was to be conducted in such a way that "no one would ever know about it." Regrettably, that cloak of silence long included American officials as accessories to the suppression. "I am only sorry," remarked General Sejna, "that it has taken so long to find some people here in America who are interested in the Soviet operation designed to use American POWs."
Good Stuff in this thread. I'm saving it on the OKBOMB disc I've made.
Thanks.
I have a BIG problem with this statement from Goddard:
If we define "proven true" as "that which is accepted by the GovtMedia," and thus by the majority of people, I'd be hard-pressed to point to a conspiracy "proven true."
I believe he was speaking somewhat figuratively, but then again, how many of the REAL "conspiracy theories" have been proven true by the "media"?...
Look at JFK, MLK, RFK. Have any of the major networks exposed the truth concerning those assasinations?
Consider Pearl Harbour, the Federal Reserve, income tax. How many Americans know the TRUTH about those topics?
And look at OKC and TWA800. Do you see any serious investigative reporting going on at CNN?
What if we awake to realize that our government is HIGHLY corrupt and we are all in deep danger and the stability of the country is in question?
What if we are lied to so often that we believe everything is okay to a point when in fact, the government is fooling us in many areas?
Waco.
TWA800
Ruby Ridge
World Trade Center
clintons list of bodies
Ft Marcey Park and Hillary's Boy Friend Vince Foster
The denial of intent to merge the USA with mexico, but policy after policy indicates the opposite.
Are we being lied to on a grand scale?
Hmm...where's the Great Right Wing Conspiracy?
Just remember to forget.
There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself." Senator Daniel K. Inouye
If Oswald was innocent, why did he shoot Tippit?
For the same reason that the paparrazi killed Lady Di.;)
“Freedom of the Press” not only allows the press to publish what it wishes, it also allows them to NOT publish what they wish.
If we did indeed have a news media controlled by the federal government, how would we know?
Because we would be fed the official government line with every major news story – ala Pravda.
And it wasn't as if the U.S. government didn't believe Jan Senja . . . . . . he worked in a civilain capacity in the Defense Intelligence Agency until his death [1996?]
Your examples show how much work is yet to be done, but it's worthwhile remembering the ones which aren't disputed when shills and willfully blind true believers start throwing the tinfoil around.
How about installing Pinochet in Chile (or was that ever proven)?
I'm not sure. Was the assassination of Allende confirmed/acknowledged?
I'm sure there are many I don't know about which others here do. I'd like to see a comprehensive list of those which have been admitted officially.
"A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the facts, who refuse to believe that their Government and their media will routinely lie to them and fabricate a reality contrary to verifiable facts, is a society that chooses and deserves the Police State Dictatorship it's going to get. "
This statement should be repeated every time the paid disinformationists try to ply their trade. I've been saying something of the sort for a long time, but Goddard says it best.
And, of course, we have the recent example of the "misplaced" FBI files, which I think most thinking people agree were actually "withheld" FBI files. This is not conjecture. It's proven. The files were never given over. Your tax dollars at work.
I was the first person to mention General Senja's name in open testimony before a Congressional Committe - in terms of Americans taken to the Soviet Union. There was a brief scurry among Senators and staff, then Senator John Kerry stated that Senja had been checked-out and there was no confidence in his statements. Is was only later that I learned that he had passed polygraph tests on the subject being discussed, and had the full confidence of the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Our leaders from the Executive Branch, the Legislative Brance and Judicial Branch are committed to the continuing betrayal of American servicemen.
In 1992, when myself and two friends were called to testify before the Senate Seclect Committe on our missing from WWII, Korea and the Cold War; we had no Senator friends except for Smith (NH) and Grassly (IA). The other Senators and the Rand Corp. were adamant that no Americans were taken to the Soviet Union. It is my understanding that Russia has now admitted that the Soviet Union took American captives to the camps in Stalin's Soviet Union. These things, however, aren't considered newsworthy in the United States.
Betrayal of those who serve us is an American way of life, supported by our Government and the media.
Not only Reynolds Wrap references, but I notice they like to make frequent mention of "little green men" and "bigfoot" and other "nut-stories" in hopes of painting them all with the same brush. No one on the bombing threads (to my knowledge) has tried to bring in alien abductions--except, of course, the paid disinformationists, trying for the "guilt by association" effect.
Good grief! $60?? No wonder it's special order--you need an armored car to deliver it! (But please, don't send an AKAL truck!)
For your OKC bombing files!
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!
Gen.3
1.[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
2.[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen.5
1.[5] And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
2.[8] And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
3.[11] And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
4.[14] And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
5.[17] And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
6.[20] And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
7.[27] And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
8.[31] And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
Gen.6
1.[17] And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
thanx for the flag. don't miss this honway.
thanx for the flag. don't miss this honway.
Personally, I hold Goddard in high esteem. He's incredibly responsible in his statements.
Returning to Waco, it is also worth noting that Rogers (FBI) decided against CS in the Ruby Ridge stand-off / murder (fearing it's fatal effects on the baby), but elected to use it in Waco - after the escape tunnel to the underground shelter was blocked. Kinda funny how he forgot between Ruby Ridge & Waco. But, then, he also had Lon Horiuchi covering his 'six' at Waco, as well.
In both Ruby Ridge and Waco, the use of military assets were totally illegal.
Between what's seen among the BATF, FBI & FEMA, I'm at a loss to discover anything less than a play for